As Sarnia struggles with what to do about a problematic encampment in Rainbow Park, many are pointing out that several of the issues related to homelessness are the provincial government’s responsibility. With that in mind, The Journal’s Cathy Dobson sat down with Sarnia-Lambton MPP Bob Bailey this week for a wide-ranging discussion about homelessness, the encampment, and the issues surrounding it. The interview was edited for brevity.
SARNIA JOURNAL (SJ): I am interested in your take on how serious the impact of homelessness, mental health and addiction is for our community.
MPP BOB BAILEY (BB): I think it is one of the major issues defining our community and I do hear the complaints from the (Rainbow Park) neighbours. I made a point of driving by the encampment just to see what was going on. EMS was there, a police cruiser, mobile care, county staff. I think we counted 30, 40 tents in a row. When you see the proximity of them to the homes across the street, I can certainly see their concerns. I know how I’d feel if it was my neighbourhood. It must certainly do something to property values. And, in their words, they can’t let their children go to the park. There are needles and other paraphernalia.
I’m not saying it’s the people in the park, but there are break-ins and crime and they are getting the blame.
SJ: Were you shocked at what you saw at Rainbow Park?
BB: No, I’ve read the stories and I was prepared. But it’s quite surprising when you see it in person and think, okay, that could be me living across the street. That could be my house, my family. And you realize it’s not just a problem in the city. It’s also affecting small-town Ontario. It might not be as visible in places like Petrolia but it’s there to some degree.
SJ: What’s your assessment of how Lambton County is addressing homelessness?
BB: They are doing a great job. They estimate they are looking after more than 2,000 people every day. The encampment is high profile but represents I think less than .025% of the people that the county and the city help every day. They house and feed so many people to keep them off the street.
The county is spending $100,000 a month to keep (the temporary shelter at the former Laurel Lea/St. Matthews Church on Exmouth Street) open. They tell me that over half the people at Laurel Lea moved out of there and down to (Rainbow Park) for whatever reason.
The county says they have enough shelter beds to house all the homeless but there are rules they have to obey, like no drugs, no weapons. And, I guess, at the encampment there are no restrictions.
SJ: A lot of people believe the city should move in and remove the encampment because they say there is, in fact, enough shelter space for all those people.
BB: I rely on the county numbers that say there is enough space for them. But the police say they can’t remove them because they are worried about these Charter of Rights cases.
I think the city did the right thing recently and passed a motion about the parks where they can’t go now.
SJ: But the acting city solicitor said the encampment at Rainbow Park is entrenched and you’ve got Canadian Charter (of Rights and Freedoms) issues there that don’t apply to other parks without encampments.
BB: I’ll tell you, at the end of the day, I think it is going to take federal and provincial governments to act. It’s going to take senior governments that might have to pass legislation and use that Notwithstanding Clause…
I’m no lawyer but we have to do something for the taxpayers. There’s an inordinate number of resources being poured into this issue and it’s just not fair. They are taking it from other commitments. I mean, Sarnia police answered 600 calls (in downtown Sarnia and Rainbow Park) between June 1 to July 11.
SJ: How could the Notwithstanding Clause factor into it?
BB: The Notwithstanding Clause is for times when you have to pass legislation notwithstanding whatever the Charter of Rights says, when there’s an overriding issue that takes precedence.
No one is writing about the first responders who are there on an ongoing basis, dealing with these overdoses? How do they go home at night to their families and know that the next day when they go back to work, they have to go back there again?
I think we’re going to see a pile of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) cases down the road from first responders who’ve had to deal with people who, through no fault of their own are hooked on Oxycontin, fentanyl…I mean I don’t think they are responsible for themselves, but our first responders have to deal with them and I’ve never heard anybody take their side.
I bet if we jump in the car right now, there will be an EMS or police vehicle there.
SJ: I can hear your angst. This is like nothing we’ve seen before.
BB: No, and I want to see it solved. I spoke up in Toronto at caucus and I think the municipalities are all scrambling, doing everything they can do to keep their ratepayers happy and safe. They are looking for extra help from the provincial and federal government.
I don’t have all the answers but I think there’s going to have to be legislation of some kind to give the municipalities more authority.
SJ: What is the province doing about it?
BB: We’ve done a lot already. Since 2022, we’ve given Lambton County’s Homeless Prevention Program $13 million for things like mental health and addictions, emergency shelters and housing. We’ve funded a mobile response team so Sarnia-Lambton has one of only three in Ontario. We’ve given over $1 million for the Youth Wellness Hub and over $1.5 million since 2021 to Ryan’s House (withdrawal management facility).
SJ: The province is responsible for affordable housing, health and so many other things that play into the homeless issue and there’s clearly more work to be done.
BB: So I had (Associate Minister of Mental Health and Addictions) Michael Tibollo here and we met with the Rotary (housing committee) and Lambton County, and he said you guys put together an outline of what you need financially for supportive housing. It’s got to have mental health, addictions and health care involved. They call it wrap around services, not just housing alone.
My office delivered that plan for up to 300 (supportive housing) units and $6.5 million a year for operational funding to Tibollo last week and he said he would get it into the fall economic statement.
SJ: In 2022, you announced the province would provide $12.5 million in capital funding for a 24-bed withdrawal management facility at Bluewater Health. The hospital is still waiting for that money and you say it is in the ‘abyss’ that is the Ministry of Health’s capital grants system. Can you do anything to get that project moving?
BB: We know it’s in the system and we email them every day and say where is it?
SJ: I understand the 12 withdrawal management beds at Ryan’s House will be part of the new 24-bed facility when it opens and Ryan’s House will close. Is that true when our community is in such dire need of addiction services?
BB: The goal is to keep Ryan’s House open. Minister Tibollo really liked what they are doing at Ryan’s House so I am fairly confident that it will continue in some respect. I’ve heard him say at Queen’s Park, you need to go and see what Bluewater Health is doing with Ryan’s House. Minister Tibollo and I have talked about developing a place for people once they finish at the management withdrawal facility.
We are the first government that I know of to have a mental health and addictions ministry. Premier Ford, when he first got into office, created that new ministry and there’s money with it for addiction treatment…I think Premier Ford, because of his brother who – it’s no secret - had issues, has a soft spot for (addiction treatment) and that’s why Minister Tibollo is where he is.
Tibollo has been here at least twice, once to see Ryan’s House and out to the county to talk about supportive housing. The Ministry of Health will come up with the capital and Tibollo’s ministry has the operating dollars.
I want to emphasize the province is doing a lot. We’ve spent a lot of money so far and we’re probably going to spend a lot more here in Sarnia and across the province.
SJ: Lambton County has asked for a meeting with the Minister of Municipal Affairs Paul Calandra to ask for funding assistance with affordable housing. What’s the status there?
BB: We (his office) haven’t actually seen that request but I know about it. If I was a county politician, AMO (Association of Municipalities of Ontario) is where I’d be raising this (in August). I can help them with arranging a meeting with Minister Calandra. But the key to me is that you just can’t keep throwing money at (the lack of affordable housing). You need a plan.
SJ: I thought I’d wind this up with a question about Ontario Works. The amount it pays hasn’t changed for six years now while groceries, housing and the cost of living has gone way up. Are there any plans to increase Ontario Works monthly payments?
BB: No. The objective is to move people off of Ontario Works if they can be. There are a lot more jobs today and free training programs. The premier says there’s 700,000-plus people working today than when we got into office. We want to put as many people back to work as possible because I think it helps people feel good about themselves. And we’ll have to work on the others who can’t be employed. Hey, is it perfect? No. But it’s a lot better than it could be.